Up AND Down the Hatch!

[seeshell]

Hi all

My hatch hardware is not salvageable. I need something that operates in much the same way though - it must maintain the horizontal position of the hatch (stopping it moving side to side), while allowing it to be adjustable vertically. And I'll need 4 at least - the hatch is a monster, but at least it weighs a hell of a lot less than before it was remade.

A member posted the following picture:



Something like this would work perfectly - but do they have a name? What are they called? If I can't find some of these (or a reasonable facsimile!) I'll have to make some of my own out of knurled nuts, plates etc...please, help

Grateful for any leads, ideas or options for hatch control!
Seeshell

[Don Ricardo]

Hi Seeshell,

I thought a bit about what you would call the hinge in the picture and came up with "scissor hinge", then did a bit of googling - and guess what? They're called scissor hinges! Also called "canopy lifters", which makes sense too.

Have look at this link and see if it might fit the bill...

The supplier has the same product in different sizes, and some other products which might possibly also do the job, eg pop top lifters, but I think the scissor lifts are probably the go.

Don Ricardo

[Franklin1]

G'day DonR and Seeshell,

DonR, those canopy lifters are the biggies used on poptop vans, as you've alluded to. Fully open, they'd lift the hatch about 700mm above the roof. I think they'd be far too big for the sort of thing Seeshell is probably looking for.

As Seeshell has indicated, one of the big problems searching for stuff is knowing what the heck the part is called. For example, the little spring-loaded catch that locks the sliding lid over the stove is called an "elbow catch" here in Oz, but is known as a "rooster catch" in the good ol' USA (because the profile of the catch looks a bit like a rooster ). Same bit of hardware, but two totally different names.

Having said all that waffle, Seeshell, I don't know what the name is of the specific part that you're looking for. All I can recommend is that you do a search for hatch stays images or scissor hinge images or any variation of those sorts of words. Sometimes you can get lucky and see an image of the sort of thing you're looking for. By opening the image up in a new window, you find out what it's actually known as, only to discover that name is just one of the 500 different names it's given around the world.

Good luck.

cheers,
Al.

[Franklin1]

G'day again, Seeshell,

I've been wracking my brain trying to think what the fitting I've sometimes seen on hatches might be called. I decided to do a search for window stay images, ...and there it was...



...and it's known as a "quadrant stay" (...Like, as if I would have ever guessed that name )

Anyway, add variations like "window stay images" to your search as well (or any combination with the word "stay" in it).

cheers,
Al.

[seeshell]

Hi Al and Don

Thanks for the advice.

I'd previously tried scissor lift - and got a lot of work platforms! I'll try again with some other word combinations you suggested!

Ships seem to have the most of these kind of things. But, almost all the chandlery hardware used for hatches has the same issue - it relies on a hatch being hinged at one end and then the adjustment being done on a single side with lifters or as you found quadrant adjusters. The hinge maintains the forward to back position and both the adjuster and hinge maintain the side to side position of the hatch.

The quadrant stays pivot on both ends. On their own, even set up in an opposing fashion, I think they could let the hatch be blown forward all the way or back all the way. Fixing them along the adjustment curve to prevent that would mean quite a lot of clearance I think - I can see Aaron bashing his head on one in the night when the hatch is down. And he doesn't have the hair anymore to "buffer" accidents like he used to - better get that Vintage Caravan Personal Insurance up to date

I have to admit after scouring for a while that one on the picture yesterday is the closest I've ever seen to what I'm after. I appreciate the assistance and advice, and I'll keep scouring the images!

Cheers
Seeshell

[firefighter]

Jan 19, 2013 7:15:16 GMT 10 Franklin1 said:

G'day again, Seeshell,

I've been wracking my brain trying to think what the fitting I've sometimes seen on hatches might be called. I decided to do a search for window stay images, ...and there it was...



...and it's known as a "quadrant stay" (...Like, as if I would have ever guessed that name )

Anyway, add variations like "window stay images" to your search as well (or any combination with the word "stay" in it).

cheers,
Al.

G'day Carley

Quarant stays above are the same as fit to my roadhaven
on each corner (4) fitted on the length of the van sides

cheers
f/f ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[seeshell]

Hey Geoff

Do you have a picture of that setup?

Cheers
Carley

[hilldweller]

Would something like this work if you could find one? www.facebook.com/pages/Caravelle-Caravans/240825182678459#!/photo.php?fbid=293772104050433&set=a.241451989282445.54953.240825182678459&type=1&theater

Alternatively, could you use quadrant stays but with two on each side ie 8 in total rather than the usual two on two sides (four in total). That should stop sideways movement and I don't think (can't quite picture it) it would prevent the hatch being raised and lowered.

I've used quadrant stays on my Caravelle as the original fittings were long gone - just the usual four though I mistakenly put them on the front and back framing rather than the usual side pieces. But anyway hatch is 3ft x4ft fibreglass and I don't think you'd want it to be much bigger with just four of those stays.

[Franklin1]

The biggest hatches I can remember seeing on the forum are the ones on the Jennison/Pathfinder vans, such as these...









Maybe Jeff Jennison can give you some info about how the hatch in his van is operated?

cheers,
Al.

[Roehm3108]

Hi seeshell

Those lifters on tubbygra's van look very interesting. But I wouldn't get too excited about using them for your hatch, if you think you need to have one on each of the four sides, because of the size/weight of your hatch. I think you'll find that they need to be perfectly parallel with each other, as the lift action has to function together. If (for instance) the front are slightly lower than the side one, then they are all that are taking the weight/pressure. I notice your hatch has a curve (slightly) and you may still have enought in the van framing to have them parallel and the top of the lift, but you would need to make sure they work together.

I wonder instead whether those mechanical poptop lifters may not be suitable. Check here about what I mean

caravansplus.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=410

In the blurb, they say that the height can be adjusted, but not to what extent. But the concept would work. They would also stop any sideways movement.

The other thing is whether you can utilise hydraulic door lifters for the job? You would need to incorporate some sort of cross bracing using scissor shape aluminium that would fold down just like the scissor lifters, but the lifting is done by the hydraulic lifter and you can set them to whatever height you want to lift the hatch.

Hope this makes sense (I know what I mean) ;D ;D ;D

Ray

[seeshell]

Hi Al and Ray

You're right - and Jennison and I have compared hatch sizes before! In fact in many respects, The Blue Flyer has many features of a Jennison van - Arthur Conrick added the long hatch split windows and many other bits to his own creation.

It's interesting that that monster blue van (being towed by the tiny passenger car!) looks to have a Jones Wheel in front...you can just see it!

I'd love to see how Jennison's hatch is lifted - but perhaps he'd need a bit of help, being benched on the injury list.

And Ray of course you're quite right you'd have to have them in perfect parallel which could be hard...hmm! Back to the drawing board perhaps.

Thanks to all for the interest - it's great to get more than one mind on a problem!
Seeshell

[Don Ricardo]

Jan 19, 2013 11:11:55 GMT 10 seeshell said:

...(being towed by the tiny passenger car!)...

Totally irrelevant to the current discussion, Seeshell, but having looked at the advert in 'real time', if memory serves me right it's a Ford Customline V8, so not such a tiny car - although it is a big van for any car! On first sight I thought the vehicle was an FE/FC Holden (because of the colour combination, which is very FE/FC) until I looked more closely.

Enough trivia. Back to the hatch discussion... I've never actually seen one, so I'm shooting in the dark, but what did they use for raising those four seasons hatches which were introduced on vans in the 70's? My understanding is that the hatch could go straight up, or tilt any which way to catch a breeze.

There's also a (60's) example on this Adventurer/Galah van, although we don't know who owns it now so we can't ask for details:



Don Ricardo

[firefighter]

G'day Carley

!967 Roadhaven Hatch







Hatch in the open position and it can be tilted front or rear




f/f

[Roehm3108]

Hey F/F. Those quadrant stays seem very strong, I'm amazed!!! AND they look so neat. Still wonder if they'll do the Job for The Blue Flyer - remembering their hatch is over 2400mm long - (over 8ft in old scale). But certainly worth investigating the possibilities.

Out of interest, what is the height of the framing they are attached to? Just wondered about using it as an alternative for the Rowvan hatch.

Ray

[Franklin1]

Seeshell, imagine if you could get a robust version of this Olympic hatch winder made up...

Olympic hatch winder

Surely that would do the trick!

cheers,
Al.

[peter]

Hi Al Is the OLympic hatch winder still available,,it is the same as i have on my Fr.Regent hatch which i have under reconstruction at the moment.

[peter]

Hi Seeshell,,,there is a 4 seasons hatch on Gumtree now,,maybe that is your solution

[Deleted]

Hi seeshell,
I have 4 new spring loaded hatch lifters(That were used on nearly all caravans up until the 70s)that I would be happy to give you.
Just PM me and we can work out how to get them to you.
Cheers
hughdeani

[seeshell]

Hi Hughdeani

PM sent!

Cheers
Seeshell

[firefighter]

Jan 19, 2013 14:59:04 GMT 10 Roehm3108 said:

Hey F/F. Those quadrant stays seem very strong, I'm amazed!!! AND they look so neat. Still wonder if they'll do the Job for The Blue Flyer - remembering their hatch is over 2400mm long - (over 8ft in old scale). But certainly worth investigating the possibilities.

Out of interest, what is the height of the framing they are attached to? Just wondered about using it as an alternative for the Rowvan hatch.

Ray

Ray

The framing timber is 3 x 3/4 in


f/f