dbar2
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Post by dbar2 on Jan 10, 2010 12:13:39 GMT 10
G'day all,
We are new to the forum and to restoring vintage vans, and have just purchased what we think is a Re-lax that someone has clad with metal. The metal cladding will be coming off and the ply will be restored or replaced. Have already rebuilt the roof hatch and started painting with Dulux enamel, but would appreciate your opinions on whether oil or water based paint is better for restoring old vans
Charlie
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Post by Franklin1 on Jan 10, 2010 14:29:07 GMT 10
Hi Charlie, the subject of choice of paint has been discussed on the forum at various times over the years. No one side of the discussion has ever come out a convincing winner, so it really comes down to the paint you are comfortable using. If you've started with a "turps-based" enamel paint, and you are happy to keep going with it, then keep going.  Provided paint is applied in appropriate steps (primer, sealer, undercoat, top coat, etc...whatever is recommended) then the end result will be ok. The main difference between paint types will be the number of years before the job requires redoing. If you are looking for a high gloss finish on the van, then the argument sways in favour of gloss enamels, or the two-pack type of paint. Keep that brush flowing nicely Charlie!  cheers, Al. |
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Post by cobber on Jan 10, 2010 14:30:40 GMT 10
G'day Charlie, YOU TRYING TO START A FIGHT OR SOMETHIN'  !!!! There are about ten experts on this forum with ten different opinions on what is the best paint to use for various situations. If I were you I'd go to the REAL experts.... if you click here ... and here you will get their advise about painting plywood. Cobber. |
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Post by minicamper on Jan 11, 2010 5:20:54 GMT 10
I agree with the plywood experts. If I had my time again, I wood not (get it ) use enamel again. Yes it gives a better gloss, but my Alby had to spend a fair bit of time out in the weather whilst the shed was being built and has suffered because of it. Paint cracking at the expansion joints, windows etc. I'll be going with acrylic next time AND it's easier to clean up.. My 10c worth anyway... (and that of the painters at work - and they've got 80 yrs of experience between them!) Cheers Chris |
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Post by JBJ on Jan 11, 2010 5:57:11 GMT 10
Hi,
I agree with Chris.
Lucille was painted using oil based enamels to get the gloss I wanted.
After around 6000Km on our great road system, there are cracks forming at nearly every join, even though I followed all the paint instructions.
Wouldnt do oil based enamel again unless I worked a way to handle movement at joins first
JBJ
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Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 11, 2010 12:52:48 GMT 10
That's an interesting observation there JBJ.
I wonder if you could expand on what you actually used on your joins, that they should crack - at least those who follow after you WON'T make the same mistakes.
I used the non-hardening joint filler on the Propert and it does seem to do the job, as it has greater elasticity than the "no-more-gaps" type of fillers.
Have used both acrylic and oil enamels, but on different surfaces. I found the acrylic works well on aluminium, but you just don't get the gloss levels of enamel. The Propert has super gloss oil enamel and I am more than happy with it.
Bottom line is probably that it's a personal choice.
Ray
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Post by JBJ on Jan 11, 2010 15:17:15 GMT 10
Hi Ray,
The cracking is mainly where I glued & screwed joins, generally a backing strip was used behind as well. Liquid nails was the adhesive, & after I sanded the joins I used Selleys mirror finish external grade putty/filler from the yellow tubes. It was left to dry well in excess of stated times.
I'm looking at repairing some of the cracks, & hiding others behind some form of covering piece.
The more I use Lucille the less the cracks worry me, as they are part of the nature of a ply van I believe.
Crazy thing is the Sunliner has a lot of fillers on it, & not a crack anywhere that I can tell.
The joys of rebuilding older vans.
JBJ
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dbar2
New Member
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Post by dbar2 on Jan 11, 2010 21:06:04 GMT 10
G,day
Sorry Cobber being new around here didn't know about pryor discussions. Was just after the opinion of them that have been there before, and I got a good cross section on the subject and a bit on joint preparation as well. Thank you all for your time
charlie
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Post by firefighter on Jan 11, 2010 21:30:39 GMT 10
 Hi Charlie I noticed you live in Victor Harbour .......... old fart lives just around the corner from you and he has just finished painting his van before xmas ......send him an email or P M f/f ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 22, 2010 15:31:31 GMT 10
I was checking the Austral Plywoods website about ply information, when I came across the following info on paints for plywood, which may be of interest:
Exterior Paint Systems
The EWPAA has shown through full exterior exposure trials that 100 percent acrylic latex paint systems perform best on plywood. The satisfactory acrylic latex paint system for plywood comprises: 1 coat 100 percent acrylic stain blocking primer; 2 coats acrylic latex exterior top coat.
Rigid paint systems including oil based and alkyd enamel paint systems, are not recommended for use on plywood in weather exposed applications. Rigid paint systems form a hard brittle coat which is susceptible to checking from any movement of the plywood due to moisture or temperature.
For further information on exterior finishing, visit the EWPAA website.
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Post by JBJ on Jan 22, 2010 19:41:16 GMT 10
Hi Ray,
After painting Lucille in gloss oil based enamel, I'm not totally happy with the finish.
So I tend agree with the people that should know.
If I ever rebuild another ply van, I'll ( hang on there, I'm not allowed to do another one)
JBJ
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 19:56:36 GMT 10
;D ;D ;D Hi Ray... Thanks for that.... Can you direct me to a website that can explain Wattyl solarguard....oil based enamel ( am i right in saying that) The big selling point was its ability to expand and contract in extremes of temp... on most surfaces .. especially metal.?? So one would think an assignment like expanding and contracting on wood would be a breeze. Dont wanna start world war 3 over paint... but what you have quoted as gospel ..sounds a bit like piant manufacturer "propaganda" No offence intended or implied mate. The needle returns to the start of the song and.. we all disagree like before. Reddo |
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Post by Franklin1 on Jan 22, 2010 22:21:42 GMT 10
Hi reddo, Wattyl Solagard is an acrylic ("water clean-up") paint.
I think far from being "paint manufacturer's propaganda", companies who manufacture building products that eventually become painted, go to great lengths to ensure paint products are compatible with the building product. Manufacturers don't want their good name tarnished by recommending products that are really not suitable to be painted on them.
It is correct that acrylic paints have more "give" in them and can tolerate temperature extremes and timber structure changes for longer than oil-based enamels. Enamels win hands down for high gloss level. Unfortunately, consumers can't have both in the one paint at the moment. So anyone contemplating painting their van has to choose between one or the other...a high gloss with the potential to crack or blister (enamel), or a lesser gloss with a longer ability to withstand the changes to the plywood structure (acrylic).
"Weathertex" is another building product based on masonite. A check of their website will give similar painting recommendations as the Plywood group.
Like all decisions, there are pros and cons. No one paint type ticks all the boxes, unfortunately.
cheers,
Al.
Edit update: I've added this in because we need to make it clear to any "inexperienced" readers that we are talking about the painting of the exterior of the caravan in the posts above. Paint selection for the interior is a totally different choice, and for me personally, the enamels win hands down for their ability to withstand wear and tear, and still maintain a good gloss level. However, that doesn't mean people can't use acrylics inside. They're much easier to apply, but the trade-off is the shorter time before it gets "grubby" and knocked around. Like I said...pros and cons.
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Post by cobber on Jan 23, 2010 5:13:32 GMT 10
AND.... if anybody is thinking they want to paint their 'van in oil based enamel because that was all that was available when the 'van was originally built ..... have a look at this site which is an Australian owned company making water based acrylic paint since 1946 .... and look at their "Profile" and "products" range....you may be surprised, I was. www.duralexpaints.com.au/Cobber.
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Post by Franklin1 on Jan 23, 2010 8:27:33 GMT 10
Too right, cobber! Here's a selection of newspaper advertisements for paint products, from 1956 and 1958: 1.) Taubmans enamel...note at the bottom it says "Lead free", so any discussion about lead in old paints should be mindful of this...  2.) Dulux Super Latex...wash up in water...  3.) Taubmans house painting guide...the text is hard to read but Taubmans recommended their Butex enamels for exterior weatherboard surfaces...  So there you have it...lead-free paints; latex paints that clean up in water; and Butex stretchy enamels, were just some of the paints available back in the latter 1950s. cheers, Al. |
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Post by Roehm3108 on Jan 23, 2010 9:08:40 GMT 10
Hi Reddo. Ditto for everything that Al said above. I was actually quite surprised at those findings and would have said that enamel (being oil based) would have more stretch tolerance on timber that acrylic. But I've learnt something there, which is why I added the comment in this thread for others. Does anybody know anything about the properties of the new enamel paints where you can wash up the brush in water?  Just wondered where they sit in this debate!!! Mr Moderator!!! Perhaps this thread could be transferred to the technical section? Ray |
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Post by cobber on Jan 23, 2010 9:15:40 GMT 10
See...... I told you Charlie.... you're a trouble maker ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Cobber P.S Just for a bit of fun you should ask us about getting insurance for your vintage caravan ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Cobber. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 10:08:47 GMT 10
I only invented trouble Cobber....  T'was the rest of you that perfected it..... ;D ;D ;D No matter what we say it is up to the individual to make a decision on what they think is best for them. I dont think there is any 100% right or wrong in any of this debate. Probably the best advice on painting anyone can give is... Take your time with the preperation. If that is done properly then yoou have more than half the battle beat. If it isnt done properly..... ,, well ya can look forward to "Doing battle" again with the brush . roller, spray gun in the very near future. Its all good. Reddo |
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Post by Franklin1 on Jan 23, 2010 12:59:16 GMT 10
Hi Ray,
Water-based enamels are taking their rightful place in the "Which paint to choose?" discussion.
I'm not a professional painter, nor a paint technician, so my opinions are based solely on my DIY (Do It Yourself) experience...
1.) Oil-based enamels -
Good: Highest gloss finish. Paint settles to eliminate brush marks. High wear and tear resistance.
Not-so-good: Potential to crack and blister as timber flexes. White will age to a yellow shade. Not easy to get a good finish if not experienced. Large effort to clean up equipment. Odours for sensitive noses.
(from another forum) Tip: a.) Smell - Most paint shops have a little deodoriser that you can use in any paint (even epoxies). You put a couple of drops in, and your paint will smell like flowers. This is great when you know there are small children living in a house, or people with strong allergies. You will still smell the paint a little, but it's a brilliant little trick. Pink packaging from memory.
b.) 'Yellowing'. A little trick to avoid the yellowing is to put a couple of drops of black in the paint. If you want a white enamel, ask for 'Builders White'. The two drops of paint are basically invisible to the eye, however they stop the yellowing.
2.) Water-based enamels -
Good: Easier to use for the Do-it-yourselfer (DIY). Faster drying. Less hassle cleaning up equipment. Reasonable wear and tear resistance. White will not fade to yellow. Low odour.
Not-so-good: Brush marks will partly show on finished dried surface. Lower gloss level than oil-based. Won't tolerate timber flexing as much as acrylics, but better than oil-based.
3.) Water-based acrylics -
Good: Easiest to use for the DIY market. High resistance to cracking when timber flexes. Least hassle cleaning up. Low odour. Quick drying. Easiest to prepare for repainting.
Not-so-good: Brush marks will show. Lowest gloss level. Least wear and tear resistance.
cheers,
Al.
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Post by King Fisher on Feb 8, 2010 11:03:48 GMT 10
Ok just to throw another option into the mix pot... (Purists please turn away now) How about two-pac? any good for the exterior and cupboard doors?
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Just wondered where they sit in this debate!!!